Debating Mr. Bell part 1
Dear Mr. Bell,
I want to thank you for writing your book Love Wins. After reading this book, I walk away with a better understanding of what Paul was warning about in 2 Timothy 4 when he stated that “a time will come when people will not endure sound doctrine; but instead will want to have their ears tickled. They will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn their ears away from the truth and will turn aside to myths.” While Love Wins is an interesting read, the foundations that you lay forth have weak biblical and weak doctrinal support thus diverting from the truth….tickling ears and turning aside to myths.
I cannot say that I am surprised Mr. Bell. It is difficult for us to think on the doctrine of hell. I understand that. The reason is that God has placed a portion of his own love for people in our hearts, even his love for sinners who rebel against him. As long as we are in this life, it should always cause us great distress and spiritual agony to think about eternal punishment.
Here is the reality. The history of Christianity is surrounded by a blur of heresies seeking to evade the clear teachings of heaven, hell, and salvation. Origen claimed to have proof texts to support his vision of a universal reconciliation: the idea that you hold Mr. Bell….that hell functions as a purging and cleansing place…. that all passing through it will be set free. Richard Neuhaus (a Contemporary Catholic Intellectual) stated that the hope that hell would one day be empty. Jehovah’s Witnesses and Orthodox Evangelical Christians have offered a view of hell where eventually all are consumed by fire and cease consciousness.
Others pondered the billions of un-evangelized who would die without Christ and wonder whether they will have an opportunity to respond after death to the gospel. Mr. Bell, you are correct in stating that other intellectuals and theologians think the way you do. However, these hopes that you share with others are still misplaced and unbiblical.
After reading your book, it seems that your teaching revolves primarily around four key topics: a unilateral forgiveness, a three tiered definition of heaven, the fact that the Bible contradicts itself on how one might be saved, and the question of whether hell is forever.
Tonight, Mr. Bell, I would like begin to debate the ideas you have set forth by presenting truths grounded in Scripture. Tonight, I’d like to specifically wrestle with your theory that hell isn’t forever.
Comedian Jim Carrey said “Maybe there is no actual place called hell. Maybe hell is just having to listen to our grandparents breathe through their noses when they’re eating a sandwich.” While Jim was simply looking for a laugh in describing his view of hell….you on the other hand Mr. Bell I believe were looking to create a paradigm shift in the view of hell…. looking to establish a new idea or better yet, re-present an old idea packaged up as “the gift of love”. I think the ultimate point you attempt to make is that a “god of love” would not sentence someone to eternal damnation.
To simplify your view of hell, please allow me to take the liberty of using a verbiage that would stick in the minds of people listening here tonight…words that they could remember and could pass on to other people as a simple summary of your thoughts regarding the place called hell…..those ideas being three fold. In summary…you see how as a time-out, as trials we go through here on earth, and as a trash heap.
First, “a time-out”….. . agreeing with Origen in the idea that hell is purgatorial in function and that all passing through it will be redeemed. In Luke 16, Jesus tells a parable that clearly explained the harshness, finality, and inability to repent in the place of Hades or hell.
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
Mr. Bell, you contend that the moral of this story isn’t the horrific nature of hell, the finality and inability of a repentant heart, the forever separation in which no man can cross-but rather the moral of this story is that this rich man was in hell and had not yet changed the condition of his heart. You agree that no sin is allowable in a perfect place called heaven…but believe that in due time a man such as this will “learn his lesson in hell”…be purified…and cleansed. You contend that the rich man’s request for Lazarus to bring him a drink of water was an attempt to show that in his heart, he still saw Lazarus as a lowly beggar and not that he was begging for one taste of water due to the torment. The man was “not yet ready” to be released from torture….cleansed and prepared for the his ultimate destination….the destination for that Christ provided for all as He made ALL things new in the redemptive act of the Cross. You present that in due time…hell will cure this man of His evil ways….that He in deed will repent…that He in time will call upon the name of the Lord…and that Hell will have only been for a moment….a season of purification….cleansing. Love wins. Hell is nothing more than a “time-out” until you have realized and repented for the evil that is in your heart.
Where you claim it is a “time out”, a temporary cleansing…I believe the Bible claims that is a “time that never ends….and eternal punishment.” Jesus makes it clear in this account of the rich man and Lazarus that upon death, the sinner immediately finds himself in torment. The unbelieving soul faces punishment. This experience of hell is frightful and un-imaginably horrific and is just the beginning of a final sentence to the lake of fire, a sentence that awaits the day of judgment at the resurrection of the unrighteous.
Why must it be eternal Mr. Bell? Because hell is God’s ultimate triumph over kingdoms of this world, the older order of the flesh. The revolt of God is more than a sin against one’s neighbor. It is a reproach to an infinitely worthy Creator, itself worthy of an infinitely worthy punishment. More significantly is the nature of the judgment itself. The sinner in hell does not become morally neutral upon his sentence to hell. We must not imagine the damned sinner displaying gospel repentance and longing for the presence of Christ.
The damned indeed are longing for an escape from punishment, but they are not new creations. They do not, in hell, love the Lord their God with heart, mind, soul, and strength. Instead, they are now handed over to the full display of their natures apart from grace natures that are satanic. John 8:44 states 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Forever and ever, with no end in view either for the sin or the punishment thereof.
We like to believe in a mythical gray area where people live in between living a life for God or living a life for Satan. Yet the Bible clearly states that while no man may serve two masters, we clearly all serve one. Hell is for those who chose to serve the wrong one.
Attempts to navigate around this truth of hell as everlasting punishment are like going back in the Garden of Eden and desiring to substitute human wisdom and human justice over the authority of God. Yes, hell is horrifying. God deems it so. Our response to such horror should not be denial, but in fervent evangelism of the nations.
It may help us to realize that if God were not to execute eternal punishment, then apparently his justice would not be satisfied and his glory would not be furthered in a way that he deems wise. While we groan on this side that all men might be saved, we also recognize that all heaven cries with praise to God for the rightness of his judgment as they finally see the heinous nature of evil for what it really is.
Rev. 19:1-3 1 After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting:
“Hallelujah!
Salvation and glory and power belong to our God,
2 for true and just are his judgments.
He has condemned the great prostitute
who corrupted the earth by her adulteries.
He has avenged on her the blood of his servants.”
3 And again they shouted:
“Hallelujah!
The smoke from her goes up for ever and ever.”
Revelation 19:4-5 The twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God, who was seated on the throne. And they cried:
“Amen, Hallelujah!”
5 Then a voice came from the throne, saying:
“Praise our God,
all you his servants,
you who fear him,
both great and small!”
Therefore, we cannot long for their salvation as we long for the redemption of all humanity. We must believe that eternal punishment is true and just, yet we should also long that even those people who most severely persecute the church should come to faith in Christ and escape eternal condemnation.
2 Corinthians 6:2 states
2 For he says, “In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you. I tell you, now is the time of God’s favor, now is the day of salvation.
As CS Lewis writes: In the long run, the answer to all those who object to the doctrine of hell itself is a question: What are you asking god to do? To wipe out their past sins and at all costs to give them a fresh start, smoothing every difficulty and offering every miraculous help? But He has done so, on Calvary. To forgive them? They will not be forgiven. To leave them alone? Alas, I am afraid that is exactly what He does.
Mr. Bell, you claim that many Christians worry more about the hell that awaits us rather than the hell we see everday in this world. As you saw those children with missing legs and arms in another country, that is indeed a horrific image. It indeed should cause more of us to want to help. I agree with you on that point. Our hearts should be broken by those who are broken. However, the idea that these “trials” that we go through and these acts of aggression and horror on Earth are actually a part of the definition of hell…Mr. Bell…I can assure you that there is nothing on this Earth that can clearly define, become, or even allude to the unending punishment of hell. Where you would define hell partially as “earthly trials”, I believe the Bible would clearly define hell not as “earthly trials” but as THE trial verdict.
Revelation 20:11-15 states….11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. The final judgment focuses on the kingship of Christ. Jesus pointed to this judgment throne as when he will distinguish between the sheep and the goats. Matthew 25:31-46 states 31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
The criteria for judgment include individual sins- all summoned as evidence for damnation…but the ultimate criterion for judgment is the sinner’s response to Jesus himself.
The final judgment results in the condemnation of sinners. As the New Hampshire Confession of Faith puts it, “Nothing prevents the salvation of the greatest sinner on earth except his own voluntary refusal to submit to the Lord Jesus Christ, which refusal will subject him to aggravated condemnation. Revelation brings with it responsibility. The greater the revelation, the greater the responsibility.” In hell, the whole person is handed over to the judgment of God. Again, hell weighs heavily on the restored heart, as the Spirit prompts us to cry for those who will be lost. Hell is also an outrage to the unregenerate sense of justice, since no person except through the conviction of the spirit deems himself worthy of condemnation. No one in jail every truly believes they are guilty.
It will serve the purpose of displaying before all rational creatures the declarative glory of God in a formal, forensic act, which magnifies on the one hand His holiness and righteousness, and on the other hand, His grace and mercy.
Mr. Bell, the final thought on hell you offered is that the New Testament Scriptures have very little to say about it. You claimed that Jesus used the image of the “trash heap” and the word of “hell” to show how serious he was…but these were only examples….to show the severity. Not LITERAL descritions. You say Jesus is talking about a “trash heap” outside the city as imagery. I would argue that the New Testament speaks clearly to hell and that Jesus’ imagery of a trash heap is to show the true nature of hell…a true horrific destination.
“Hell is a place of indescribable torment.” John referred to it as a lake of fire in Rev. 20:14. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Jesus compared it to a Middle Eastern trash heap in Mark 9:42-50. 42 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea. 43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. [44][a]45 And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. [46][b]47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where
“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’[c]
49 Everyone will be salted with fire.
50 “Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? Have salt among yourselves, and be at peace with each other.”
This is an important point Mr. Bell. God did not design this place of eschatological exile for human beings, but in the words of Jesus, “for the devil and his angels.” Because rebel humans choose the headship of Satan as their god and because they share his nature, they will join in their inheritance, unless they are hidden in Christ. All human beings, however are invited and commanded to flee this wrath. This understanding of hell is in sharp contrast to the Calvinistic view that sees God predestining human beings to hell prior the fall in order to display his wrath. God sincerely invites all human beings to seek refuge from the wrath to come. Mr. Bell, you seem to be asking the wrong question in doubting God’s intention. The real question is not why some people should end up in hell. That is not the question for skeptics of the faith. The question for God’s reputation is not why some people go to hell, but rather why do the guilty seem to go unpunished? From David to Solomon to the martyrs of Revelation, the cry of believers through the ages is a plea for God’s justice to be displayed, for the rebellion of the wicked to end. The doctrine of hell answers this question after the dust is settled from history. Though unbelievers tell themselves that God does not see their actions. .
Psalm 94:1-7 1 The LORD is a God who avenges.
O God who avenges, shine forth.
2 Rise up, Judge of the earth;
pay back to the proud what they deserve.
3 How long, LORD, will the wicked,
how long will the wicked be jubilant?
4 They pour out arrogant words;
all the evildoers are full of boasting.
5 They crush your people, LORD;
they oppress your inheritance.
6 They slay the widow and the foreigner;
they murder the fatherless.
7 They say, “The LORD does not see;
the God of Jacob takes no notice.”
Every idle word, thought, deed will be brought before the throne and judged by the criterion of God’s own righteousness. Matthew 12:36-37.36 But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”
Morever God has implanted knowledge of this coming judgment in the psyches of all humans Romans 2:15-16…15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
We seek to deny this knowledge or suppress it with clever words…like love wins, but the reality is that hell, Mr. Bell is no time out, no earthly trial, and no trash heap. It is time without end. It is a true horrific place. It is the trial verdict. That is the truth.
The final question tonight is this…how should this truth of hell affect you and affect me. This is what hell should do for me.
It should satisfy my inward sense of a need for justice in this world.
It should enable me to forgive others freely.
It should provide a motive for right living.
It should provide a motive for evangelism.